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i never got any money from you

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[Music]

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ufo might just as well stand for

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unprecedented financial opportunity

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[Applause]

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be normal

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this is the saucer life a podcast in

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which we examine concepts events or

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people orbiting the world of flying

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saucers few preconceptions snark when

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justified no belief no debunking today

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it's kind of one of our zine scene

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episodes and we're going to be looking

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at four articles written by john keel

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john a keel for saga magazine in the

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late 1960s

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so we're going to talk a little bit

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about saga magazine we saw it a bit in

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our last episode about ted owens the pk

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man and we're going to look at some

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great articles that were extensive and

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in-depth and sort of brought

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some different ufo stories into more of

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a mainstream publication we're also

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during the midway break going to talk

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about or respond to the feedback we got

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about our ted owens pk man episode that

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we weren't able to do last week because

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of travel so let's go ahead and get

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started

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[Music]

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now if you've listened to the show for

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any length of time or been involved in

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the flying saucer

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scene i hate saying it that way the

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flying saucer seen for any amount of

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time you've probably come across the

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writings of john keel at the very least

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probably you've heard of the mothman

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prophecies we've done episodes on john

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keel in the past and i encourage you to

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look those up in the archives but we

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haven't talked extensively about saga

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magazine saga magazine was a men's

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magazine i think that was the sort of

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generic term and you can sort of think

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of saga and other magazines like it in

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the 1960s and 1970s as sort of a

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a halfway point between

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the adventure pulps of the 1930s and 40s

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and 50s

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and

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it's i don't know playboy without the

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nudity i don't know if that's a good way

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to say it but they're definitely aimed

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at a male audience um that is the the

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target and a lot of

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travel adventure exciting stories stereo

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reviews car reviews movie reviews things

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like that and a surprising number of

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articles about ufos and the paranormal

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many of which were written by john keel

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and this was as you might remember from

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last time the magazine in which um in

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which otto binder wrote articles about

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ted owens the pk man now keel

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contributed a number of different types

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of articles to saga some of them were

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very extensive some were regular columns

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he had a regular column about sort of

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ancient astronaut ancient mysteries type

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of topics and how they might have tied

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into the ufos we're not going to look at

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any of those because i don't like that

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stuff he also published previews or

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excerpts from some of his books we're

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not going to be covering those because

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we've probably talked about the books or

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will at some point

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these articles weren't original research

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but often they were a good synthesis of

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available stories sort of concentrated

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into categories of type of ufo encounter

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or sightings and they were presented to

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a more mainstream audience and these

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stories came from places like flying

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saucer review the the british ufo

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magazine or

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the books by coral lorenzen like the ufo

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occupant books and things like that

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they often reflect a certain viewpoint

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and we'll see kiel's viewpoint sort of

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come through in these articles from the

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late 1960s the four articles we're going

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to be looking at first is the ufo

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kidnappers second will be ufos agents of

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terror

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we'll be looking at strange messages

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from the flying saucers and finally

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secret ufo bases across the u.s so we're

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going to get started with the ufo

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kidnappers which appeared in the

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february 1967

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issue of saga magazine kiel begins ufo

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kidnappers with the story of william

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carolus a real estate man from cape

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coral florida real estate man is kiehl's

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word he was driving along uh the tamiami

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trail which is

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a thing a a road that i've never seen

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referenced anywhere else

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except the warren zevon song seminole

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bingo so i'd stop

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writing this episode and play seminole

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bingo a few times i think i have five

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different versions of that song which is

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kind of excessive i do realize that so

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careless the real estate man was driving

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along the tamiami trail in his

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convertible enjoying the spring air in

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may of 1967

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suddenly he notices a star a strange

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star ahead of him but the star is moving

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it's a glittering blob of blue green

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light a hundred feet across

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it's chasing him he's trying to outrun

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it he's doing over a hundred miles an

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hour eventually hits 115 miles an hour

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drives to the police station makes a

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report about what he'd seen the cop

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there officer dampier said that curlers

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did not appear overly tired nor had the

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symptoms of drinking i think this man

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was telling the truth he was right

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scared

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so

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keel uses the story to illustrate that

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there's a game that the ufos are playing

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and

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they chase planes they chase

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people in cars they chase

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boats

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but what happens when they actually

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catch a driver

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one of the problems keel explains is

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that there is some reluctance to

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understand

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what exactly is going on on the part of

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the authorities

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after 20 years of mystifying incidents

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most of which have been casually

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explained away by the united states air

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force as hallucinations and vicious

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clouds of swamp gas some of the pieces

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of this baffling puzzle are beginning to

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fit into place the unidentified flying

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objects are engaged in a bewildering

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series of research studies which make

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the efforts of our leading science

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fiction writers seem like mickey mouse

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so we're getting into the theory that

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whatever is happening is part of an

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experiment where mankind humanity is

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being tested or examined in some way

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keel goes on to explain that in 1965 and

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1966

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there was quote a fantastic new phase in

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the worldwide activities of the ufos and

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their elusive pilots end quote he

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explains that there were automobile

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chases on mass ufo landings occurring in

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large scales in a dozen countries and

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clouds of swamp gas landing on a highway

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in south africa frightening to police

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officers and setting fire to the tar on

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the road the swamp gas reference is of

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course

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a bit tongue-in-cheek typical of the

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types of stories that keel is seeing

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increasingly during 65 and 66 is this

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tale of two police officers

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at 5am on the morning of april 17 1966

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two police officers in ravenna ohio did

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a turnabout and pursued a flying saucer

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instead of being pursued by it it flew

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low over highway 224 and at times during

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the mile chase that covered two states

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it would hover and wait for the police

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car to catch up with it before scooting

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off again another policeman william l

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stevens jr of richmond virginia had the

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same exasperating experience at 3 30 a.m

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on june 24 1966 when he sighted a

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dirigible shaped object about 125 feet

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long and went after it he sped up to 110

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miles per hour but the thing got away

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kiel shares some other stories including

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a story of a man named

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telemacho xavier in brazil now this is a

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little more sinister it's not just a

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chase it's what happens when the ufo

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kidnappers

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allegedly catch up to you

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xavier disappeared on the night of

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september 16th 1962 near a remote jungle

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village in northern brazil

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shortly before he went into limbo

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workmen on a rubber plantation in

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barcelos amazonas reported seeing a huge

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silvery disk hovering over the paduri

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river and spraying sparks the local

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police investigated and learned that 17

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chickens six pigs and two cows had

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vanished from the village at the same

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time a few days later telemacho xavier

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left a soccer match in the village of

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viaconicero and started to walk home

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alone along a dark jungle road he was

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never seen again and a thorough search

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of the region failed to turn up any

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trace of him but one workman did come

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forward with a very bizarre story he

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said that he had seen a glowing

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round-shaped object giving off sparks

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come down in a clearing and that three

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men had jumped out of it and grabbed a

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person who was walking past the victim

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put up a fight but his assailants

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managed to drag him into their craft

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which took off vertically and

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disappeared at high speed

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investigation by the authorities

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revealed signs of a struggle where the

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worker said the fight had taken place at

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the newspapers in rio it seems evident

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beyond a doubt that mr telemacho xavier

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so far in this article you should be

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getting an idea of of the way some of

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these sort of extensive looks at a

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particular aspect of the ufo phenomenon

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would work as john keel contributed

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these to saga magazine you've got a

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basic

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framework in this case ufos chasing and

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possibly kidnapping

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witnesses and then to that framework he

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adds a number of different types of

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story

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providing enough background detail on

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various aspects of the ufo phenomenon

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and history and personalities explaining

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who donald kehoe is explaining what

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nycap is providing a great deal

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of background information it really is a

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a very

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well done style of article kiel then

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goes into

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some depth on the betty and barney hill

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case as well and we don't have time

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really to go into that we should do an

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episode on betty and barney hill i don't

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know it's one of those massive giant

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cases that that sometimes

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intimidates me keel also gets in another

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really good dig at the air force

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if you believe in swamp gas you should

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be able to find an equally plausible

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explanation for these cases even though

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they are backed by mounds of newspaper

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clippings and sworn affidavits of

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witnesses and carefully detailed police

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records

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the us air force doesn't believe in such

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documentation in fact the air force

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doesn't seem to believe in their own

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records and they now have a great mass

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of data on the disappearance of entire

278
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:55,850
planes and crews

279
00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:59,200
[Music]

280
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,000
i get that it's 1967 and the swamp gas

281
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:04,000
thing is still pretty much

282
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:06,000
there in the public consciousness or at

283
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:07,519
least the ufological public

284
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:09,920
consciousness but man the constant swamp

285
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,040
gas references in this article and maybe

286
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,120
maybe not maybe constant isn't the right

287
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:17,600
word but the continual swamp gas

288
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,920
references just sound like you're just

289
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,760
you're just beating that joke

290
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:23,440
into the ground so this article in the

291
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,519
ufo kidnappers does cover the story of

292
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:27,519
betty and barney hill's abduction it

293
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,079
also and this is the perfect place to

294
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:32,399
talk about this story uh for john keel

295
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,079
it talks about the antonio vias bois

296
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,240
case as well which we've covered on the

297
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:37,920
show i think the episode where we looked

298
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:41,839
at the ufo occupants book by coral

299
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:44,480
so it's a good article it goes into a

300
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:47,200
lot of depth a lot of detail it is

301
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:52,160
about 15 pages 12 15 pages of of

302
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:53,040
small

303
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,680
three column print not many photographs

304
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,440
the photographs that are there are

305
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:00,240
pretty spectacular actually and the art

306
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,399
uh if you've been on the saucer live

307
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:04,399
social media you've seen i've shared

308
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:05,440
some of the art from some of these

309
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:07,839
articles the flying saucer art in saga

310
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,399
magazine was always just

311
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:11,760
outstanding

312
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,200
next up in october 1967's issue of saga

313
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:17,920
magazine we have the mysterious men in

314
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,800
black ufo agents of terror and this is a

315
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:24,399
lot of this is

316
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:25,200
um

317
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,600
things that you will later see expanded

318
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:29,839
upon in the mothman prophecies

319
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,519
especially the well obviously especially

320
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:33,279
the men in black versions of that but

321
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,839
there are some good stories here as well

322
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,240
sort of separate from that and some

323
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:40,720
interesting speculation about what might

324
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:41,440
be

325
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,880
keel starts off by saying uh there's a

326
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,959
story and it may sound like the plot of

327
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:51,120
the recent hit movie blow up which i've

328
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,120
never heard of but kiel alleges this

329
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,800
happened several months before that

330
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,560
movie was released

331
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:59,120
late in 1966 a professional photographer

332
00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:00,639
in california was out on a routine

333
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:02,079
assignment when he heard an eerie

334
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:04,160
whirring sound overhead he looked out of

335
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,839
his car and was stunned to see a huge

336
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,440
unearthly metallic disc hovering

337
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,839
directly over him fortunately he was

338
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:11,360
well equipped with excellent cameras and

339
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,639
lenses and he was able to click his

340
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,720
shutter several times before the machine

341
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:16,560
shot straight up and vanished believing

342
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,399
that he might have some sensational and

343
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,639
highly sellable photographs he rushed

344
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:22,240
back to his studio and dunked the film

345
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,160
into the developer the photos turned out

346
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,920
even better than he had expected and the

347
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,680
photographer delightedly made several

348
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,760
enlargements and hung them up to dry

349
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,279
feeling quite pleased with himself he

350
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:33,440
left a studio for a few hours he did not

351
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,760
tell anyone about the ufo pictures no

352
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,519
one knew that he had taken them but when

353
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:39,199
he returned to his dark room later he

354
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,720
discovered that someone had broken in

355
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,880
and stolen all the prints and negatives

356
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,480
they did not touch any of his other

357
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:46,000
pictures nor did they attempt to steal

358
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:48,000
any of his valuable equipment it was

359
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,760
obvious that whoever entered a studio

360
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:51,760
had been after only one thing

361
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:57,990
this is another lengthy article 10 12

362
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:00,880
pages or so and early on sort of taking

363
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:03,920
off of this you know stolen photos and

364
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:06,720
stolen negatives um story

365
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,279
from the photographer kiel talks about

366
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:11,839
instances where officials of one kind or

367
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:14,959
another have demanded photographs back

368
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:18,320
from witnesses and trying to confiscate

369
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:21,120
photographic evidence

370
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:22,880
somebody somewhere doesn't want certain

371
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:25,360
types of ufo photographs to be seen in

372
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,959
fact there are several somebodies from

373
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:28,880
several different independent groups all

374
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:30,399
working to suppress information about

375
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,560
ufos collect negatives and prints of

376
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,560
good photos and wipe away whatever

377
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,160
traces may be left behind by these

378
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:38,560
mysterious objects some of these agents

379
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:40,000
are directly employed by the united

380
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:41,519
states government and are following

381
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,480
orders

382
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,240
others seem to be playing the same game

383
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,839
for reasons of their own and are

384
00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:47,360
actually being hunted by the government

385
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:48,220
agents

386
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,800
[Music]

387
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:52,880
so as of yet there's no attempt to

388
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:55,839
identify the men in black as

389
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,800
anything other than government agents of

390
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:00,720
some kind or agents of some kind the air

391
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,320
force other agencies it is clear that

392
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:06,399
there were some instances in the late

393
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:10,959
1960s of people impersonating air force

394
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:14,160
personnel in order to intimidate ufo

395
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:16,959
witnesses and keel presents a

396
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:19,920
reproduction of a memo from the air

397
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:22,160
force office of the chief of staff from

398
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,839
march of 1967 to this

399
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,560
effect

400
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:28,639
subject impersonations of air force

401
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,279
officers information not verifiable has

402
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,920
reached hq usaf that persons claiming to

403
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,680
represent the air force or other defense

404
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,759
establishments have contacted citizens

405
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:39,440
who have cited unidentified flying

406
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,839
objects in one reported case an

407
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,440
individual in civilian clothes who

408
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,600
represented himself as a member of norad

409
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,440
demanded and received photos belonging

410
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:50,000
to a private citizen in another a person

411
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,920
in an air force uniform approached local

412
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,600
police and other citizens who had cited

413
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:56,079
a ufo assembled them in a school room

414
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,759
and told them that they did not see what

415
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,360
they thought they saw and they should

416
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:01,519
not talk to anyone about the sighting

417
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,519
all military and civilian personnel and

418
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:05,519
particularly information officers and

419
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:07,440
ufo investigating officers who hear of

420
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:08,480
such reports

421
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:10,160
should immediately notify their local

422
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:11,680
osi offices

423
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:14,560
hewitt t wellis lieutenant general usaf

424
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:21,829
another angle that keel takes in this

425
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,639
article is looking at the robertson

426
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,560
panel report if you remember from the

427
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,639
early 1950s i think we did an episode on

428
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:30,800
this it's in the archives the robertson

429
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,600
panel was a cia committee that looked at

430
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:35,519
the air force's handling of the ufo

431
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:38,320
question and came to some conclusions

432
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:41,440
mostly that this could be a

433
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:44,639
problem for national defense if systems

434
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,519
got clogged with trying to identify ufo

435
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,199
reports and that perhaps

436
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,839
an eye should be kept on civilian ufo

437
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,680
investigation organizations that the

438
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:55,519
media could be used to

439
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,199
debunk or demystify the ufo the ufo

440
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:01,279
phenomenon the

441
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:05,439
report was made public in 1966

442
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:06,720
so when

443
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:09,520
kiel talks about the robertson panel

444
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,400
report here in this article in 1967 it's

445
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,880
something that a lot of readers probably

446
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:16,959
didn't know about but

447
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:19,760
given the fact that there are kyo

448
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,679
believes different people from different

449
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,480
agencies involved in trying to

450
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,559
perpetuate the ufo cover-up and the

451
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:29,039
intimidation of witnesses it's not

452
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,760
surprising that he would bring the cia

453
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:33,600
into this and he

454
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:35,679
speculates about some possible

455
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,960
inter-agency rivalry fueling some of

456
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:41,280
what is going on

457
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:43,200
could it be however that the cia knew

458
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,640
more about ufos than they were

459
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,960
pretending and that the whole 1953 panel

460
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:48,720
affair was merely a ruse to keep the air

461
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,799
force from suspecting they gave the

462
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,480
project blue book personnel a chance to

463
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,080
present their case that the flying

464
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:55,919
saucers were extraterrestrial and then

465
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:57,280
they rejected the evidence as

466
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,200
insufficient and literally ordered the

467
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,360
air force to debunk the subject suppress

468
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,360
the flow of future reports and clamp

469
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:05,520
down on civilian investigators captain

470
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:07,679
rupelt major fournette and the other

471
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,679
early air force ufo buffs left the

472
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,520
service and were replaced by hard-headed

473
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,440
types who followed the new line without

474
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,029
he then goes into some of the pre-1947

475
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,200
ufo related cases that happened during

476
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:23,679
world war ii and and a bit before such

477
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:25,280
as the foo fighters and the ghost

478
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:28,240
rockets over scandinavia he talks about

479
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:29,919
general jimmy doolittle being sent to

480
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,440
sweden on a secret mission which was

481
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,600
never explained could it have had to do

482
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,440
with the ghost rockets foo fighters or

483
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,440
other ufo type things

484
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:39,280
what did officials know

485
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,679
before ufos became a thing

486
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,600
somebody knew a lot about flying saucers

487
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,280
before the general public had even heard

488
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,280
of the mystery that somebody was ready

489
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:51,840
to move when in 1947 the whole thing

490
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,350
as an example of how this foreknowledge

491
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,000
of ufos would come in handy keel talks

492
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:02,080
about the case of the the sort of proto

493
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,840
men in black case of harold dahl and

494
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,000
fred chrisman and the maury island

495
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,320
incident which we've done an episode

496
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,400
about so we won't go into

497
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:12,640
here now i gotta say that maury island

498
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,600
episode is one of our most popular for a

499
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:17,200
long time it was the most downloaded

500
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,400
episode of the show so if you haven't

501
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,480
heard that go listen to it actually this

502
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:22,400
this whole episode about john keel and

503
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,919
these magazine articles is a great

504
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,919
opportunity to go back and find some

505
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,919
stories in the archive that you might

506
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:30,080
have missed over the last five years of

507
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:31,440
this being

508
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:34,240
in operation here at the saucer life

509
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:37,520
he tells another story about

510
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,559
20

511
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,880
people being hushed up

512
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:42,960
and their livelihood threatened after

513
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:46,799
seeing a very very impressive ufo

514
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:49,600
in 1955 20 workmen were making repairs

515
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,960
on the outside of a large factory

516
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,480
building in southern new jersey when a

517
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:54,240
gigantic circular craft silently

518
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,760
descended from the sky and hovered

519
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:58,240
almost at ground level above the 600 car

520
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,559
parking lot the object was so big that

521
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:02,159
it covered the entire lot and the

522
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,679
workmen watched it for several minutes

523
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,760
hardly believing their eyes later as

524
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:07,280
they all filed in to punch out on the

525
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,039
time clock a man in civilian clothes

526
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:11,120
herded them all into a meeting room we

527
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,880
want you all to sign an oath of secrecy

528
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:14,720
he told them grimly flourishing a sheaf

529
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,960
of papers promising not to tell about

530
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:18,640
what you saw today those of you who

531
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:20,080
don't want to sign needn't come into

532
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:23,200
work tomorrow or ever again

533
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:24,559
everyone signed

534
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:26,799
who was this man what was the purpose of

535
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:29,200
the secrecy oath one thing is obvious he

536
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,120
had to know that the flying saucer was

537
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:33,280
going to appear that day these agents

538
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,799
must have also had the necessary

539
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,240
credentials to get them into the navy

540
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,919
dock and into the factory building which

541
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,600
was engaged in classified work for the

542
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,679
navy they had to know what was going to

543
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,679
happen in advance and they had to have a

544
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:45,280
reason for suppressing the stories of

545
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,070
that last portion there makes a very

546
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,559
good point how do the men in black know

547
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,960
exactly how quickly to get to

548
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,039
a witness what the witness saw what

549
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,360
evidence they might have photographs or

550
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:03,840
or material or something like that how

551
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:05,039
do they know

552
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,400
that quickly

553
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:08,880
one explanation could be that the craft

554
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,600
are

555
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,159
human in origin another explanation

556
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,880
could be possibly that the

557
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,280
silence group the agents the men in

558
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:18,480
black

559
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:21,760
are not human are as extraterrestrial as

560
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,400
the craft might be keel returns to the

561
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:25,840
notion of air force officers

562
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,240
confiscating photographs from civilians

563
00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,799
and talks about the air force's denial

564
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:32,320
that they've ever done anything like

565
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,760
this but kiel knows differently

566
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:37,440
i know for a fact that air force

567
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,200
officers or men claiming to be have

568
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,280
seized remarkably detailed ufo pictures

569
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,520
taken by honest american citizens these

570
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:45,200
people have shown me copies of photos

571
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:46,559
whose negatives have been brazenly

572
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:48,290
collected by air force officers

573
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:52,080
[Music]

574
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:53,600
now it wasn't just the air force or the

575
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:55,280
cia that was causing trouble there were

576
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:58,159
also ufo investigators causing trouble

577
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:01,600
kiel tells sever has several examples of

578
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,480
members of nycap making nuisances of

579
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:06,640
themselves during

580
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,760
during some investigations

581
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:11,120
other knight cappers made such a

582
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:12,799
nuisance of themselves at the wanaque

583
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,159
reservoir in new jersey that one

584
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,760
policeman remarked if someone says

585
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,440
they're from nycap we won't even talk to

586
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:19,760
them witnesses in virginia west virginia

587
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,280
and ohio have also complained about

588
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,559
nycap

589
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,159
some of our members get a little carried

590
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,159
away richard hall deputy director of

591
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:28,080
nycap said recently as we discussed this

592
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,960
problem

593
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,799
when we catch someone being overbearing

594
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,799
or misrepresenting himself we kick him

595
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,640
out of our organization

596
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,720
i won't let anybody from nycap into my

597
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,559
house anymore woodrow darren berger of

598
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,320
mineral wells west virginia grumbled in

599
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,240
april he said that a local nightcap

600
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,159
member had harassed him ordered him not

601
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:46,400
to talk to anybody but nycap and annoyed

602
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:48,080
him daily after he had allegedly

603
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:54,310
you know what's coming check out our

604
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,559
episode we did about woody derenberger

605
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,880
and injured cold a couple years ago back

606
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,559
in the archives

607
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:02,480
actually this is an interesting uh story

608
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,919
about nycap making itself a nuisance

609
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:06,960
there

610
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:09,840
were stories i think brad steiger talked

611
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:13,360
about it where people were harassing ufo

612
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,120
witnesses saying that they were from

613
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,600
nycap and that they had information from

614
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:19,679
brad steiger and john keel and others

615
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,200
that they should not talk to anybody

616
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:24,080
about their ufo cases so here we have

617
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:27,039
examples of people saying nycap members

618
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:28,880
were being annoying there are also other

619
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:31,280
stories that there were people who

620
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,880
basically were

621
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:34,799
pretending to be nycap

622
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,360
investigators harassing witnesses as a

623
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:40,080
way to dissuade them from being more

624
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,039
open with their statements keel finishes

625
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,799
off this article by talking about

626
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,039
woodrow derenberger's sighting talking

627
00:23:51,870 --> 00:23:49,360
about some of the men in black incidents

628
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:51,880
in point pleasant during that year of

629
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,799
1967 the same thing he would talk about

630
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:55,840
in the

631
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:00,640
is a fascinating article about

632
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,600
sort of not the earliest days of the men

633
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,400
in black but the the mid 60s men in

634
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:08,960
black as they sort of get refreshed and

635
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,600
updated and sort of given a new coat of

636
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:14,159
paint from their 1950s they knew too

637
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,159
much about flying saucer days now we're

638
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,039
getting into the sort of weird creepy

639
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,640
men in black who might be from the

640
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,799
government or might be from somewhere

641
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:23,600
else

642
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:24,880
entirely

643
00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:28,080
we'll be back in a little bit with more

644
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:32,150
john keel writing in saga magazine

645
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:39,110
okay we'll be back in a week fielding

646
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,480
your questions and comments about this

647
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:42,640
episode for real this time then on the

648
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,799
next regular episode um i wasn't sure

649
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,400
what i was gonna do and then i was

650
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,480
looking back through the archive and i

651
00:24:52,669 --> 00:24:50,720
realized that our episode on the year of

652
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:52,679
the humanoids uh that

653
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:55,679
1972-73 humanoid siding wave that

654
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:57,760
episode was actually relatively short

655
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,320
which some of our episodes used to be so

656
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,880
i think we're going to go back to the

657
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,960
year of the humanoids and cover some

658
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,440
interesting humanoid stories that we

659
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,919
might have missed first time around

660
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,440
if you like the saucer life and you want

661
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:13,600
more you can support us in exchange for

662
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,840
bonus content from both this show and

663
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,080
our fellow chiso media show great lakes

664
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,880
lore you can check it out at patreon.com

665
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,120
chiso media or via the link in the show

666
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:25,440
notes or you can google saucerlife

667
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,279
patreon that'll get you there there are

668
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:29,200
bonus episodes there's

669
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,360
interesting stuff people seem to people

670
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,520
seem to enjoy it you can check out past

671
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,679
episodes of the show at saucerlife.com

672
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:37,520
as i've been telling you constantly

673
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,559
today or in the the sort of

674
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:42,559
list of episodes in your favorite

675
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:44,480
podcast app we are on twitter and

676
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:45,919
instagram at saucerlife and you can

677
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,640
email us at thesaucerlife.com

678
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:50,559
you can contact us by post at chiso

679
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,960
media po box 68 grand blank michigan

680
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:56,240
eight 48480

681
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,039
okay that's the usual mid break stuff

682
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,440
out of the way i think before we return

683
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,240
to john keel we need to talk about uh

684
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:06,400
ted owens and pk man and some of the

685
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,240
feedback some of the

686
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:10,640
massive amount of feedback we received

687
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,360
after that episode over on the patreon

688
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:15,440
elbardo says i have three a great

689
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,799
episode i have three hopefully quick

690
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:18,960
questions the polar shift bit reminds me

691
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:20,640
of the seemingly apropos of nothing

692
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:22,159
section of barkers they knew too much

693
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:23,440
about flying saucers where he talked

694
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:25,520
about a pamphlet detailing a pole shift

695
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,039
that would send the arctic ice sheets

696
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:28,880
flying do you have any idea where this

697
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:31,120
sort of mythos started i can't figure it

698
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:31,840
out

699
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,640
neither can i i um i i need to look at

700
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:36,480
the pole shift thing because it does

701
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:37,760
come up in

702
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,039
numerous areas and um yeah it

703
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,360
it started somewhere anybody who has any

704
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,520
ideas about that speak up and we'll

705
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,760
address it next week next i'm interested

706
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:49,279
in reading pk man but i'm generally

707
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,880
skeptical of claims of professionals and

708
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,640
sort of fringe sciences who need to

709
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:54,159
validate their ideas for their jobs to

710
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:56,080
exist like for instance the first earth

711
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:59,120
battalion folks a reference to

712
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,640
they they knew

713
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,400
they knew too much about goats the men

714
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:04,559
who stare at goats is mishlov pulling

715
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:06,240
secondary sources local newspaper

716
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,679
weather reports or whatever and

717
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,360
corroborating these claims in any way

718
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,200
they're just so fantastical yeah there

719
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,720
is some good corroboration of those

720
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,320
claims and what's interesting about the

721
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,080
pk man book and i think the most

722
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:18,080
valuable thing about it is that that

723
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:20,960
mishlov was personally involved in the

724
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,080
case and a personal acquaintance friend

725
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:25,919
might not be the the best word to

726
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:27,919
describe their relationship but michelle

727
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:30,399
evan owens had a long-standing

728
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:33,279
relationship of a couple decades and

729
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:36,159
that provides some insight into

730
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,360
owen's

731
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:39,600
abilities um whatever they might have

732
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,399
been

733
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:42,960
as well as as his personality i think

734
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,840
that's some of the real value of the pk

735
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:47,760
man book and finally have you watched

736
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,240
the x-files episode rain king it seems

737
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,960
pretty loosely based on owens yes i do

738
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,279
like the rain king episode and it does

739
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,320
kind of have that vibe also in the

740
00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:00,080
patreon chris says i think i'm obsessed

741
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:01,440
with this guy now if you're going to

742
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,120
claim extraordinary insight be it from

743
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:05,440
aliens god or q the cardinal rule is

744
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:06,880
never to make specific testable

745
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,200
predictions owens seemingly did nothing

746
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:11,360
but make specific testable predictions

747
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:13,120
that ended up coming true with baffling

748
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,799
frequency i'm not about to say that

749
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:16,960
owens was genuinely psychic i'm sorry

750
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,799
the owens was actually psychic or in

751
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,720
contact with space intelligences but

752
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,480
he's much harder to dismiss out of hand

753
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:25,600
than virtually any other contact date

754
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:29,360
yes i agree it is very interesting it's

755
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:32,399
it's fascinating and um

756
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:34,240
it's really good stuff

757
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,919
uh some other questions um

758
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:39,679
and comments and and we're not gonna get

759
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:42,480
to them all i'm very sorry laura says i

760
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:43,840
lost track of how many times this

761
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:45,919
episode i said sometimes even out loud

762
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:48,559
how is this weather helpful ted pk man

763
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,000
was definitely more of a villain than a

764
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:52,159
superhero going by his use of power i

765
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:53,520
never thought i would feel sorry for the

766
00:28:59,669 --> 00:28:57,200
cia in the 1960s but poor george clark i

767
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,679
have actually filed an foia request from

768
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,200
the cia for

769
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,600
anything they might have about ted owens

770
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,200
to see if i can get all of the letters

771
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:07,200
he wrote to george clark and hopefully

772
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,360
any replies that george clark sent back

773
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:13,520
kirk says did mishlov or anyone go back

774
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,720
and systematically match up the

775
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,720
predictions owen sent to newspapers to

776
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:18,080
the storms that actually took place to

777
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:20,159
ascertain the degree of accuracy as well

778
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:21,760
as whether the storms were in any way

779
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:24,480
anomalous uh yes there was a bit of that

780
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,559
especially in the pk man book

781
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:28,399
if owens had any meaningful ability to

782
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,399
manipulate lightning and weather then

783
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:31,840
it's sad that he was so determined to

784
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:33,919
utilize it for self-aggrandizement at

785
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,360
the very least he could have become a

786
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,440
fount for scientific knowledge and what

787
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:38,960
was his endgame anyway during the

788
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,279
earlier part of his career supposedly

789
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:43,279
the suppose the cia or another part of

790
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,559
the government had elected to take his

791
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,559
claim seriously what would have happened

792
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,120
then that is a really really good

793
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:51,840
question um because it seems to be all

794
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,039
about establishing owens's position as

795
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:57,760
the space intelligence's

796
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:58,720
voice

797
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,600
to humanity messenger to humanity so if

798
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,760
that were to be acknowledged

799
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:05,279
i have to guess that what would have

800
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,720
followed would have been

801
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,399
epic pronouncements from the space

802
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:10,080
intelligences

803
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,679
about

804
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:13,039
whatever

805
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,039
kevin emails to say there is a great

806
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,520
bollywood movie called pk coincidentally

807
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:19,200
it's about an alien trapped on earth

808
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:20,799
after a spaceship's remote control is

809
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,039
stolen he's called pk because that's

810
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,279
hindi for drunk which is what ted owens

811
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:26,880
kind of sounds like

812
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:29,440
that sounds like a movie i need to check

813
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:30,320
out

814
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,440
on twitter ap strange got in touch and

815
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,919
told me reminded me um because i'd

816
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,440
completely forgotten when i did the

817
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,440
episode that the northeast blackout

818
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,600
owens to credit for is interesting in

819
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:43,679
that donald kehoe seemed to really want

820
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:46,480
to prove it was a ufo event in his book

821
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,279
in his not so subtly titled book aliens

822
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,600
from space and i'd forgotten all about

823
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,080
uh kehoe really pounding the the

824
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:57,200
anomalous nature of uh of that blackout

825
00:31:02,149 --> 00:31:00,880
and and the and it being a ufo event in

826
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,159
in that book

827
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,240
emailer lester says what did he do for a

828
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,720
living did sis often drop diamonds i

829
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:08,640
doubt blackmailing sports teams paid

830
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:09,440
well

831
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,399
as for what owens did for a living um

832
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:14,640
he gave lessons he taught his technique

833
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:16,640
to people he made money that way and

834
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:18,799
this question dovetails nicely with some

835
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:22,559
um input from uh our our listener

836
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,120
gabriel mckee who is who's been doing

837
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,760
research on the gray barker archives and

838
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:29,519
he says uh just a quick note to thank

839
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,799
you for the great ted owens episode

840
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,799
which is very timely for me personally

841
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,480
as i'm getting ready to write about ted

842
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:35,840
for my barker book in the next week or

843
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:38,320
so owen sent barker dozens of letters

844
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,679
from 1968 to 1978 many if not all of

845
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:44,640
them asking for money and he tells me

846
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:45,919
that i left out one of his favorite

847
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,279
pieces of the puzzle that i didn't

848
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:49,840
really know about which is the s-i disc

849
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,159
that barker's sausarian press gave away

850
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,919
to anyone who sent in the coupon in the

851
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:56,000
back of how to contact space people

852
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,519
gabriel says i've only seen one of them

853
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,440
in the flesh or plastic i guess it's

854
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:02,399
from the he sent along a picture it's a

855
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:04,399
an ad for this is the disc that you can

856
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:08,320
use to contact the sis um

857
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,480
one customer sent it back because quote

858
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:12,559
it had brought me nothing but bad luck

859
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:16,240
which is which is hilarious um so the

860
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:19,600
question what did owens do for a job

861
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:20,559
he

862
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,640
provided lessons in his technique

863
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:28,880
mishlov studied his technique for

864
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:31,039
example on facebook kevin says at the

865
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:32,159
end he said that ted owens was

866
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:33,760
vindictive towards sport teams that

867
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,519
didn't pay him protection money did he

868
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,360
cause the red sox to blow the world

869
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:39,840
series in 1986

870
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:43,279
that would be outstanding if he was if

871
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,679
he was behind that and one more comment

872
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,600
from patreon stewart says i love this i

873
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,880
like how you mentioned at the end about

874
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,320
the limits of coincidence you could

875
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,840
probably predict that a blackout would

876
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:53,360
happen in september if you had a hot

877
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:55,360
summer because maybe ted learned that

878
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,960
heat messes with the wires and causes

879
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,480
more blackouts however the thing about

880
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,159
making storms appear goes pretty beyond

881
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,159
coincidence could it be possible that he

882
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:03,760
had studied enough meteorology to find

883
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,440
some likely times for these things to

884
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,600
happen and then predict them possibly

885
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,960
but we can barely predict two weeks

886
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,320
ahead accurately with all of our

887
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,039
satellite technology yeah it's the ted

888
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,080
owens thing really is one of those cases

889
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,159
where i sort of sit back and say i can't

890
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:20,000
be too

891
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,600
cynical about this i can be sort of

892
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,600
healthily skeptical but i can also

893
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,000
acknowledge that this is actually pretty

894
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,760
pretty fascinating stuff so that was

895
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:29,120
just a sampling of some of the feedback

896
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:32,080
we got people seem to like the ted owens

897
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:33,360
episode which

898
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:36,399
i'm not gonna say it surprises me but um

899
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:38,080
i'm always sort of surprised when people

900
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,919
like any of it

901
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:42,399
actually so thank you for uh your

902
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,039
attention to ted owens and the pk man he

903
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:47,840
would be i think gratified with the

904
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,399
response but for right now let's get

905
00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:53,360
back to john keel and a couple more

906
00:34:04,070 --> 00:33:56,420
articles from saga magazine

907
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,110
we picked things up in january 1968 with

908
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,119
an article entitled strange messages

909
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:11,599
from flying saucers and the beginning

910
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,320
sort of sort of big letters not quite

911
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:15,839
the headline but sort of description

912
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:18,480
says for years contact these stories

913
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:20,159
with all their ridiculous details were

914
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:22,560
credited to the crackpot fringe but

915
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:24,159
within the last few months professional

916
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,079
ufo investigators quietly returned to

917
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,079
the subject and came up with some

918
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:31,520
fantastic discoveries oh my goodness

919
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:33,200
well it might be within the last few

920
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:35,839
months but the stories are from all over

921
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,079
the place and he starts off kill starts

922
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:40,240
off with a story

923
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,919
from argentina in august of 1957.

924
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:46,320
an argentinian air force plane crashed

925
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:49,359
and the air force sent three men to the

926
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:51,280
site to guard the wreck two of them went

927
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,879
into town for supplies

928
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,119
a third one stayed behind and heard an

929
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:57,359
eerie high-pitched hum he stepped

930
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,440
outside of his tent and saw a huge

931
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,200
luminous metal disc hovering directly

932
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:03,359
overhead he reached for his pistol but

933
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,800
could not draw it from the holster for

934
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,720
some unknown reason

935
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:08,880
standing transfixed tugging helplessly

936
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,480
at his gun the young man heard a soft

937
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,560
voice coming from the humming object it

938
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:14,240
addressed him gently in his own language

939
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:16,160
and told him not to be afraid then it

940
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:17,200
went on to tell him that it was an

941
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,040
interplanetary spacecraft that a base

942
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,640
for such craft had been installed in the

943
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,960
nearby province of salta an area where

944
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,560
ufo sightings have been reported

945
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:27,119
constantly for the past 15 years

946
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,800
we intend to help you

947
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,480
for the misuse of atomic energy

948
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,160
threatens to destroy you

949
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:34,000
the voice went on to say that very soon

950
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,280
the rest of the world would know about

951
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,599
flying saucers then the bushes and trees

952
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:39,680
began to rustle and the craft shot

953
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,230
keel explains that the young man was

954
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,000
understandably freaked out he reported

955
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,560
it in full to he reported the experience

956
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,320
in full to his commanding officer who

957
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:54,960
took him seriously the story appears in

958
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:57,680
argentina's largest and most respected

959
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:00,320
newspapers kiel says and later it would

960
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:02,800
be translated into english and published

961
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:05,280
in flying saucer review the british

962
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:08,480
scholarly ish flying saucer journal now

963
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,160
kiel asks is this story and the many

964
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:12,079
others like it pure hogwash or is it

965
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:13,599
possible that the unidentified flying

966
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:14,960
objects are making contact with

967
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:17,839
bewildered earthlings he will go on to

968
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:19,839
explore some more stories like this and

969
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:22,800
what's interesting is that in this

970
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:26,240
article about contact with saucer beings

971
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,440
you don't see apart from one reference

972
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:31,839
to george damski you don't see any

973
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:34,880
discussion of the traditional 1950s and

974
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,599
60s flying saucer contactees rather we

975
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,440
have for example

976
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:40,480
actors

977
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:43,760
finding themselves contacted by

978
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:46,000
extraterrestrials

979
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:47,839
consider the tale told by movie actor

980
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:50,000
stuart whitman star of many films

981
00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:51,599
according to mr whitman he was trapped

982
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,359
in his 12th floor suite in a fashionable

983
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,040
new york hotel during the big blackout

984
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:57,599
of november 1965 when he heard a sound

985
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,200
like a whipperwheel whistling outside

986
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,520
his window he looked out and saw two

987
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,160
luminous disc shaped objects one blue

988
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:06,000
the other orange at least that's what he

989
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,760
later told hollywood communist vernon

990
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:09,760
scott then he heard a voice which

991
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,040
sounded as if it were coming from a

992
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,960
loudspeaker they said they were fearful

993
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:14,400
of earth whitman explained because

994
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,920
earthlings were messing around with the

995
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:17,760
unknown quantities and might disrupt the

996
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,760
balance of the universe or their planet

997
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:21,040
the blackout was just a little

998
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:22,800
demonstration of their power and they

999
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:24,320
could do a lot more with almost no

1000
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,359
effort

1001
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,880
they said they could stop our whole

1002
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,560
planet from functioning

1003
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:30,079
no one else in the crowded streets of

1004
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,760
dark in new york reported seeing these

1005
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,240
objects and no one apparently heard that

1006
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,240
loudspeaker but whitman sticks to his

1007
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,640
story why is anybody's guess

1008
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:40,800
he certainly doesn't need publicity at

1009
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:46,550
now unlike most of the actors that are

1010
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:48,720
mentioned in articles from the 1950s and

1011
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,240
60s i thought i remembered whitman from

1012
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,320
somewhere and so i i looked him up on

1013
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:56,720
the internet and he's been in

1014
00:38:01,670 --> 00:38:00,160
almost everything over the years and uh

1015
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:01,680
probably the thing i remember him most

1016
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:04,160
from is being jonathan kent in that

1017
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,040
horrible syndicated superboy tv series

1018
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,320
in the late 80s early 90s boy

1019
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:12,480
that show was um

1020
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,880
was bad but i watched every episode

1021
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,280
obviously keel mentions some additional

1022
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:19,680
contact-the stories from south america

1023
00:38:26,670 --> 00:38:23,200
and goes in depth on some of the

1024
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,680
stories of airships during the late

1025
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:29,040
1890s which we've covered here on the

1026
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,079
saucer life and also over at great lakes

1027
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,480
lore he talks about the abduction of

1028
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:36,960
betty and barney hill he talks about

1029
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:40,160
other stories that that really are more

1030
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:42,720
abductions than than contactees but

1031
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:44,079
there's an interesting story that he

1032
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:47,599
ends the article with um that that has a

1033
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,160
a man in england who named james cook

1034
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:54,560
which might be real i don't know maybe

1035
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,200
not the famous explorer but regardless

1036
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,280
of which james cook this is

1037
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:01,839
he was outside at two o'clock in the

1038
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:04,800
morning on september 7th 1957

1039
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:05,839
object

1040
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:12,079
turned from blue to white then blue then

1041
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:15,040
dark red landed on the ground a few feet

1042
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:18,480
in front of him and a voice came out of

1043
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,680
the craft

1044
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,320
inviting him aboard

1045
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,079
a ladder descended from the object and

1046
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:25,839
the voice instructed him

1047
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,640
jump onto the ladder do not step onto it

1048
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:31,040
the ground is damp he obeyed and jumped

1049
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,560
onto the ladder and entered an empty

1050
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:34,560
chamber illuminated by a dazzling light

1051
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,960
from some unseen source the voice then

1052
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,640
told him to take off his clothes and put

1053
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:40,800
on the plastic-like coveralls which were

1054
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:42,880
in the chamber again he did as he was

1055
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,760
told

1056
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:45,359
after he had changed his clothes he was

1057
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,720
asked to leave the craft and enter

1058
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:48,720
another one that landed nearby there he

1059
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:50,880
found 20 people all of them much taller

1060
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:52,960
than he was and they took him for a ride

1061
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:55,200
into outer space their craft could not

1062
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:57,040
operate in damp weather they allegedly

1063
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:59,040
explained to him apparently because they

1064
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,400
were surrounded by some kind of

1065
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:02,480
electrified field they also told him

1066
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,000
that the saucers were only used in the

1067
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:06,240
vicinity of earth and could not operate

1068
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,680
in outer space

1069
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:09,119
the inhabitants of your planet will

1070
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,800
upset the balance if they persist in

1071
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,880
using force instead of harmony cook

1072
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:14,800
claims he was told warned them of the

1073
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:21,030
cook protested that nobody would listen

1074
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,119
to them if they try if he tried to warn

1075
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,359
people the danger and um one of the

1076
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,880
other spacemen was irritated that they

1077
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:28,400
don't humans don't listen to anybody

1078
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:32,000
else either later he was dropped um

1079
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,760
off back at the very spot where he was

1080
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,040
first picked up

1081
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,880
cook told his story to the authorities

1082
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,280
and then quietly returned

1083
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:42,000
back to his life and kiel says quote

1084
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:43,359
like the majority of all known

1085
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:45,839
contactees he did not write any books or

1086
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:48,400
go on any lecture tours end quote and i

1087
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:50,480
think this is really interesting and i

1088
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,160
should probably plow through a bunch of

1089
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:54,640
old fsrs at some point and and put

1090
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,240
together a sort of one-time contact-y

1091
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,480
episode because there are a huge number

1092
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,400
of stories of contactees who have these

1093
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,800
little encounters and then

1094
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:06,640
that's it and the messages are often

1095
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:09,520
very much like what the the big name

1096
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:12,480
contactees had uh had talked about but

1097
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,560
there's no books no lecture tours

1098
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:16,400
nothing like that just a weird little

1099
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:19,440
encounter with somebody in a plastic

1100
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:22,480
jumpsuit so what's the verdict on these

1101
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:25,440
contactees kiel has some fairly strong

1102
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,160
opinions based on his research

1103
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:30,000
are these contact d stories the product

1104
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:32,160
of neurotics and psychopaths the author

1105
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:33,520
is interviewed over a score of

1106
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:35,280
little-known contactees in the last year

1107
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:36,640
and has discovered some bewildering

1108
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:37,839
patterns

1109
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,520
most of these people interviewed were

1110
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,520
men and women with very low iqs and very

1111
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:43,920
little education their imaginations were

1112
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,280
very limited and they had read no

1113
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,760
science fiction until recently ufo books

1114
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:49,440
and flying saucer literature was quite

1115
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:51,119
scarce and not generally available to

1116
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,720
such people anyway

1117
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:54,000
usually people in this group have an

1118
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,319
identity problem they are nobody and

1119
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,920
they have absolutely no chance of ever

1120
00:42:01,109 --> 00:42:00,000
becoming somebody often they lean toward

1121
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:01,119
belief in the occult in the

1122
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,880
pseudosciences and their search for self

1123
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:05,040
they are in short highly gullible and a

1124
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:06,720
perfect setup for any plan which

1125
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,800
promises to make them somebody they are

1126
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:10,319
also ready to accept anything they might

1127
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:12,079
be told they are not liars or

1128
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,319
fabricators but they are natural victims

1129
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,880
for those who are liars and fabricators

1130
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,480
if a flying saucer were to stop one of

1131
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:20,240
these people they would be apt to

1132
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,000
believe anything they were told and

1133
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,599
because the contact would suddenly make

1134
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,280
them somebody in a world that hardly

1135
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:27,280
knew they existed and would be eager to

1136
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:28,960
please and would willingly carry out any

1137
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:35,270
i do have to wonder if keel was

1138
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:39,359
administering these iq tests himself hmm

1139
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:42,240
interesting so he goes on to

1140
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,520
explain that basically the pattern of of

1141
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:47,599
sightings and everything with ufos over

1142
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,319
centuries he says makes it clear that

1143
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:52,960
ufos don't want their presence known

1144
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:53,680
so

1145
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,400
contactees were telling the truth and

1146
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,400
not just fakes what kind of truth have

1147
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:04,160
they told us

1148
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:05,680
fake planets

1149
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:07,119
planets in the solar system that can't

1150
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:09,680
actually support life things are

1151
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:12,560
weird and then he makes a actually very

1152
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,160
interesting point he says quote whatever

1153
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,920
the ufos are up to they are doing it on

1154
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:18,079
a very large scale all over the earth

1155
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:19,839
and it is inevitable that they should

1156
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,520
accidentally come into contact with some

1157
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,119
of us from time to time when such

1158
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,960
contacts occur they deliberately hand

1159
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,119
out ridiculous false information it is

1160
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,119
time that we got wise to this simple

1161
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,200
psychological stunt they've been pulling

1162
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,280
it on us for centuries they have been

1163
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,520
buying time with our stupidity to allay

1164
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:37,520
the possible suspicions of the believers

1165
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,960
the ufo occupants have also been

1166
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,720
spreading messages of peace and many of

1167
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:42,319
the cultists refer to them happily as

1168
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:44,240
the brothers from outer space let us

1169
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:45,839
remember that a japanese peace mission

1170
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,960
was sitting in the waiting rooms in

1171
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:49,280
washington while japanese bombers were

1172
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:51,839
on their way to pearl harbor end quote

1173
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,160
so if you've read john keel's books in

1174
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,319
the later 60s and into the 1970s where

1175
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,680
he's talking about the ultra-terrestrial

1176
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:59,520
hypothesis and very sort of esoteric

1177
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:00,400
things

1178
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:02,800
it may surprise you to to read or hear

1179
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:04,319
things like this where

1180
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,560
he's talking about basically not just in

1181
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:08,880
this article but in some other ones as

1182
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,599
we'll see the ufo people are planning an

1183
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,440
attack here comparing them to the

1184
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,319
japanese on the eve of world war ii

1185
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,200
a bit panicky i think and along those

1186
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,040
same lines we've got the last article

1187
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,040
we're going to look at today from the

1188
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:26,400
april 1968 issue of saga

1189
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:29,680
secret ufo bases across the u.s top

1190
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:33,119
secret evidence of strategic alien bases

1191
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:35,680
and kiel's basic argument here is that

1192
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,440
you know there are there are places

1193
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:38,880
where there are

1194
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:42,480
you know heavy heavy heavy amounts of

1195
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,520
concentrated ufo sightings he has some

1196
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:47,680
maps that um

1197
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,000
sort of look at jacques ville's research

1198
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:52,880
into the airship mystery in 1897

1199
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:56,079
concentrated from sort of texas up to

1200
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,079
michigan sort of in that middle part of

1201
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:00,160
the united states he's got other maps

1202
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:02,480
based on blue book reports and his own

1203
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:04,800
research that show various concentration

1204
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,760
areas

1205
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,640
so

1206
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:08,640
he wonders if this could indicate there

1207
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:11,839
are places where there are bases from

1208
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:14,400
which these ufos are

1209
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:17,920
operating and he says that you know the

1210
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,560
problem with ufo reports in the ufo

1211
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:22,960
sightings is that there are so many

1212
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,119
different types there are craft that

1213
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,520
land there are contact cases there are

1214
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:30,000
humanoids there are non-humanoids there

1215
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:33,520
are different kinds of of encounters

1216
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:36,640
that people have so it's difficult to

1217
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:39,359
get any sort of cohesive view of these

1218
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:42,800
things but the variety of cases might

1219
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,280
provide a clue as to what we may

1220
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:48,000
actually be dealing with

1221
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:49,680
the unbelievable scope of the ufo

1222
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,280
phenomenon provides such a broad

1223
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,119
spectrum of contradictory data that it

1224
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:55,280
is possible even probable that several

1225
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:57,359
different groups are involved the little

1226
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,359
men that have been reported may not be

1227
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:01,119
at all related to the nine foot tall

1228
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:03,280
giants who have also allegedly been seen

1229
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:05,119
however there is abundant historical and

1230
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,800
archaeological evidence to indicate that

1231
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,960
both giants and dwarfs once inhabited

1232
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:11,040
many parts of the world giant coffins

1233
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,640
containing the bones of nine foot tall

1234
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,400
humans were unearthed in central america

1235
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,400
in the 19th century on the other end of

1236
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:18,480
the scale traces of a civilization of

1237
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,839
dwarves have been discovered in south

1238
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:22,160
america africa and even in the new

1239
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:23,440
england states

1240
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,040
who were these bizarre people and where

1241
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:27,200
did they eventually go no one seems to

1242
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,040
know and scientists sweep these erratic

1243
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,440
artifacts under their carpets clergymen

1244
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:32,880
on the other hand point to the bible in

1245
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:35,119
genesis 6 4 there were giants in the

1246
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:38,079
earth in those days and also after that

1247
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:39,520
researchers who have plunged into the

1248
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,119
vast literature on elves fairies and

1249
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:42,960
leprechauns have come up with equally

1250
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,880
fascinating cases carefully documented

1251
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,560
throughout history in which apparently

1252
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:48,400
sober and reliable people have actually

1253
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:50,240
seen little people in many of these

1254
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,920
cases the reported behavior of these

1255
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,760
little people is very similar to the

1256
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:55,440
behavior of the little men who have

1257
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:57,680
allegedly been observed around grounded

1258
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,270
huh the last s on flying saucers got cut

1259
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:07,440
off there on that clip i wonder who

1260
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,920
could be behind such things well there

1261
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,839
are some people who are behind all sorts

1262
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,160
of things and kiel brings them up here

1263
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,960
there are some old friends of ours

1264
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:18,720
one group of far out cultists have

1265
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,319
advanced the theory that a super race of

1266
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,240
giants resides in caves deep toward the

1267
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:24,000
center of the earth and that these duos

1268
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:25,839
as they are called not only operate

1269
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:28,079
flying saucers but are also responsible

1270
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:30,400
for all our troubles raging from wars to

1271
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:37,109
yes it's our old pal the dero they are

1272
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,920
back again he goes into the the shaver

1273
00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:42,000
mystery a bit and then

1274
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:44,880
says okay so if there are people living

1275
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,920
below ground if there are other groups

1276
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:49,839
and populations of of creatures and

1277
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,240
beings that were not generally familiar

1278
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:54,640
with but that exist in our deep history

1279
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:57,440
and folklore and stories like that what

1280
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:01,119
if they exist alongside the aliens and

1281
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:04,160
the extraterrestrial craft

1282
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:05,680
let's open pandora's box a little

1283
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:06,480
further

1284
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:07,920
if some of these larger craft are

1285
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:09,440
extraterrestrial and if they are

1286
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:11,119
visiting our planet repeatedly without

1287
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,880
establishing open and direct contact

1288
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:14,640
with us then they must have another

1289
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,359
unsuspected purpose if some or most of

1290
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,760
the observed ufos are based here then it

1291
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,359
might be plausible to assume that the

1292
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,280
extraterrestrial visitors are engaged in

1293
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:25,040
social or commercial intercourse with

1294
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,040
the beings who occupy these theoretical

1295
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,280
bases those visitors may be coming from

1296
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:31,200
the home base of those other beings if

1297
00:48:34,230 --> 00:48:32,880
they are not from earth and may be

1298
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,240
bringing in supplies additional

1299
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:37,200
personnel etc to establish new bases

1300
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:38,800
should this be the case then the

1301
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,559
visitors might very well have hostile

1302
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,559
intentions they could be busily setting

1303
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:44,480
up a sufficient number of secret bases

1304
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:46,800
preparatory to launching a sudden and

1305
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,119
totally unexpected attack against us if

1306
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:51,119
the visitors come from a great distance

1307
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,880
it might take them many years or even

1308
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,720
many centuries before their terrestrial

1309
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:56,720
basis would be strong enough to launch

1310
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:03,670
wow kiwa's really into the uh the flying

1311
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:06,000
saucers are on the attack paranoia there

1312
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,760
in 1968. overall this is another really

1313
00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:12,480
interesting article that takes a lot of

1314
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:14,640
different ideas and different aspects of

1315
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:17,440
the ufo phenomenon at the time in the

1316
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:20,240
late 1960s combines it with some of the

1317
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:22,400
folkloric stuff that you would get from

1318
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:24,960
jacques valet and passport to magonia is

1319
00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:26,960
is probably not too far from being

1320
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:28,839
released in 1968 i can't remember

1321
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,079
exactly when it came out but late 60s

1322
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:33,680
early 70s something like that i should

1323
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:37,040
probably know that a bit more accurately

1324
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,640
but you've got a huge amount of existing

1325
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:42,960
information synthesized and speculated

1326
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:45,920
about which sort of sums up kiel's

1327
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:48,880
approach in these saga magazine articles

1328
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,359
and indeed in some of his other work as

1329
00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:53,599
well not always

1330
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,280
original research and investigation but

1331
00:50:02,549 --> 00:49:59,920
taking vast amounts of stories and

1332
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:02,559
information and synthesizing interesting

1333
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,680
ideas

1334
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,400
from it and he did this in these

1335
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:08,640
articles in a way that was

1336
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:11,680
in-depth but also approachable to the

1337
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:15,040
people reading in 1968 so i'll put a

1338
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:16,720
link in the show notes to where i got

1339
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:18,800
these it's as always the archives for

1340
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:21,040
the unexplained has a huge amount of

1341
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,800
things that are scanned and interesting

1342
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,880
and awesome and so i will

1343
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,200
put a link to those in there there's all

1344
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:30,240
kinds of great stuff from saga magazine

1345
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:32,850
not just john keel

1346
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:39,030
thanks for listening remember to send in

1347
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,400
your questions and comments via the

1348
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:42,400
usual social media or email channels and

1349
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:43,760
we'll address it

1350
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,240
next week on our little feedback segment

1351
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,079
our associate producer is simpson j

1352
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:49,760
hanover iii and the saucer life is a

1353
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,240
production of chiso media llc chiso

1354
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:54,960
media our heart is with the people till